shooting on two's

[longarms]

Hi All

I need some advice on timing.
I'm working on a flash animation and I'm not sure what frame rate is best.
Is somebody able to go in to more detail on frame rates for me.
Am I right in understanding that 'two's' means each drawing will fill two frames? And is 24 frames per second the same for flash animation?

I also need to know what field size to be working too if it's going to be shown on a screen.

Thanks very much!!

[rupertpiston]

Flash has a preset template for TV. Go to File/New from Template, then choose Broadcast from the first column of the dialogue box, and Broadcast Export from the second column. It has an overlay that shows Title Area and Safe Area, which does not show up in your final export.

For wide screen I use 1280 by 720, but I haven't tested it on TV or screen yet.

I guess if you're in London, 24 FPS is good, since I think (?) that's the frame rate for PAL. Over here we use 30. If you're going to do 24 fps and everything will be on two's, you may want to go with 12 fps to keep file size small, make it easier for web use, and simplify your timeline.

[longarms]

Thats really helpful, thank you!

[Animated Ape]

If you are going to go down to 12 fps, you'll then have to animate on ones, to compensate. It would be like the same as animating on twos at 24 fps. That was one of the main problems I found durring the internet boom. Flash animation was at 12 fps, and they would animate on twos, in essence animating on fours.

Aloha,
the Ape

[longarms]

Thanks for the info animated ape.
I think I'm gonna animate at 30 fps. I know it will be more work, but I want the animation to look polished and flow smoothly.

:)

[old fart]

You don't say what your animation is going to be used for. If it's for the Internet, then I suspect 30 fps is probably way too high, though I have no Internet animation experience myself, so it would be best to get advice from those who have.

I do know about broadcast animation, however, and I can tell you that if your work is for UK broadcast, then the frame rate (PAL) is 25 frames per second.

IMHO you're a million miles better off looking at using Moho if you want to do 2D vector animation for broadcast use. It's far cheaper and has dozens of features Flash doesn't - just for starters, it has a proper "camera".

Cheers,

Jeff aka Old Fart (also in London)

[longarms]

Hi Jeff

Thanks for the feedback. The animation will be shown at a festival on a screen, but it will have to be transfered onto video (PAL) first. So I'm going to work at 30 fps.

I choice Flash as it's the program I felt most comfortable with (I'm a confident artist but I've not so with computer animation). I havn't heard of Moho, but I'll keep an eye out for it. I trying to limit the programs I'm using so I can get really good with 2 or 3 rather than just know 4 or 5 (but not very well). Maybe once I've got really good with Flash I'll move on, but at the moment it's quite easy so I'm finding it comfortable to use.

I appreciate your feedback

[old fart]

If your work is going to be seen in a cinema, it will need to run at 24 fps; if it's going to be video projected anywhere in Europe, it needs to run at 25 fps, though in practice there's little visible difference. Shooting at 30 is a very bad idea unless your film is only for the USA.

All the best.

Jeff

[longarms]

I think I've got a little confussed. I was going to work at 30fps as I was under the belief that more frames created a more fluid flowing animation. But now I understand that it's more of a US standard.

I'm gonna go back to working at 24 fps.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

:)

[old fart]

24 is perfect! The vast majority of animation work that you have ever seen on film or TV will have been made at that frame rate, so you are in good company. By working at that rate you will also avoid hideous problems regarding the soundtrack later on.

Good luck with the project.

[longarms]

Thanks Jeff, you your advice has been a great help!
I'll post the short up when it's finished.
:)

[Rolf_DeWolf]

Hi,

I understand that your film is going to be shown at a festival in PAL? If you're sure about that be sure to animate at 25 fps, because the 24 fps is only for a film reel. If it's European video, then it's gotta be 25 fps, I messed up once animating at 24 fps, and Adobe Premiere just dublicated one frame every second (which causes a minor timing change).

Also, PAL has a resolution of 720 on 576 pixels, which is 4:3 aspect ratio (don't know 16:9 by heart). You can't crank up the pixels to get a higher resolution, because the video won't accept that (it's all rather technical).

Hope this helps!

[-LK-]

You don't really have to use the full 24 frames per second to make the animation look smooth and polished. Ones (or 24 frames per second) are good for fast action as they really make the action clear. However two's (or 12 frames per second) are better on slower actions and make the animation stand out a lot more. However two's will get the eyes tired after a while. The solution is very simple... Mix up your use of one's and two's. Use each system when they will work best. When your character moves their hand quickly, switch to ones. If they walk slowly from one end of the room to the other (unless it's a very complicated walk) stay on two's.

I hope that helps.

[Graphiteman]

....... However two's (or 12 frames per second) ............
Auuugh! Sorry just answered this in another thread. The thing confusing newbies is this terminology.
There's a difference in definition between frame rate per second and drawings per second.
Twos are not 12 fps although 12 drawings at 12 fps can look like twos at 24 fps. Twos are 12 drawings per 24 fps.
The frame rate is a constant. I could have a picture of a statue at 24 fps.
Frame rate: constant.
Drawings: however you choose to expose them on the constant frame rate.
Twos equal whatever frame rate you have divided by two. Twos at 30 fps would be an average of 15 drawings or distinct exposures per that 30 fps.

Drawings and frames: two different things. The drawings go on the frames.

[omnigon]

Broadcast in NTSC (America) is 720 X 540 @ 30 fps. This is pretty standard for MOST video as well. There are of course differences with PAL information like that is readily available on the net.

As far as approaching your animation for me, it's always a rule of thumb to Animate 24 fps. When you're done, you can use programs like After Effects to change it to 30fps or whatever framerate is best for your output. Really, your final product will dictate your needs. After Animating at 24fps, you can easily drop frames to 15 or 12 fps for internet use without losing key frames. Trying to animate at 12fps and converting to video will be choppy. The Human eye can discern anything lower than 15fps (and many times that's choppy). I STRONGLY recommend 24fps, and slow actions and holds can be animated on 2's and Fast and subtle or flowing action should be done on 1's. Remember it's all about persistance of vision. It is not uncommon to do a scene using both 1's and 2's all along the way (and for holds you could hold them through a whole scene sometimes!)

Stick with 24fps, you'll thank me later. If you want you can thank me now though LOL.