10 second club entry

[MightyMew1]

Here's what I have so far for my entry for the 10 second club. The camera is giving me a bit of trouble. The bit in the beginning shows two rival companies. The building the camera zooms in on is the one in which the animation takes place. Packageman is the boss of the company and is making revisions to his letter to the boss of the rival company. He decides to read it to three of his underlings.

I only have one underling in the scene right now so Maya wont be slowed down too much. The animation I have in there is just blocking. I'm trying to decide what to have the boss do when he says "...may the lord hate you and all your kind, may you turn orange in hue...". I will make the shaking of the fist when he says dear enemy more violent. I want to have him turn and point out of the window (which is supposed to be behind him) and say "...may your head fall off at an arkward moment!"


The paper he's holding is giving me alot of trouble. Does anyone know how to make an object stay in the characters hand without having to put it there frame by frame? Also, can anyone tell me how to make the paper move better? I dont know how to use the bend deformer or any other deformers in Maya. I just played around with it hoping to make it look ok. Any comments on how I can improve the animation are greatly appriciated!



Here's the link:studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClub.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClub.avi)

[MightyMew1]

Here's an up-date: studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClubb2.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClub.avi)


Someone from cgtalk.com told me how to use the bend deformer properly, so now my paper looks much better.

[Larry L.]

Hello MMew,

I have a question.

Have you done your thumbnails in pencil for all the key drawings?

Could you please post them or send them to me in jpeg format to

lanimate@bellsouth.net

Thanks.

[Fazendinha]

Hi... Just a little question....
Is the camera move really justifiable?
If you're having problems with it, wouldn't it just be better to get rid of it?
I feel that unnecessary camera moves in animation should be cut to a bare minimum... but, hey, that's just my opinion.

[Larry L.]

Hello.

You are right...10 second club projects focus on scenes with animated dialog.

I agree.

[swankaman]

if Im not mistaken your camera pannig will force your animation out of the 10 second time limit if you include it.Great site BTW, ive taken a few of the clips from there and tried to animate them at times just for fun.Good luck,
swankaman

[Rob T Miller]

I agree have to agree with the other guys about the camera movements. You may only want to focus on the acting of the character and soley the acting instead of trying to put a story to the clip itself.

Its a fantastic clip and there is alot you can do with a steady camera and only character acting!

[Animated Ape]

Sorry I can't help with the 3D questions, but I can give you some imput on the acting side. These are my oppinions and you and anyone are welcome to disagree.

When he shakes his fist when he says "enemy," isn't reading right. It seems more of a celibratory motion, like some one does something right and say's "Yesss!!" I think it would read better if he leaned forward and up, raising his fist skyward and shaking it, rather than him pulling his fist towards him.

Also, why would he point to the window when he says "head falls off..." ?

I would also agree to lose the camera move at the start. You can just start with the establishing shot of him writing his speech, then cut on the action when he turns to finish the turn in the medium close up. But that's just me, I like cutting on action.

Actually, I think the rules state that you can add time befor and after the audio clip. You just can't add extra audio or add time with in the audio clip. It's 10 seconds of dialouge not 10 seconds of animation, isn't it?

Oh, and Larry's right, you should draw quick little thumbnail story boards and then the key poses to help you out. Even if they're just stick figures, it'll help and be faster than trial and error in the computer.

Good luck.

Aloha,
the Ape

[Rob T Miller]

wait? IS the entire clip blocked out? All I see from both links provided are the camrea moves and the clip is done when he says "dear enemy". I thought that was as far as she got working on this clip.

hmm...maybe something is up downloading it.

[MightyMew1]

I see my thread has gotten quite a bit of attention. First off I want to thank each and every one of you for your advice. I really appriciate it.

Here are my thumbnails, it should clear stuff up. I'm sorry for posting such a bad animation. I should have stuck to my thumbnails and story board. >_< I'm going to start over and follow the thumbnails exactly. I do have one problem though. In the part where the character points at the window the camera is on his right side. I put it there so you can see the associates sitting on his left and that you can see their reaction to their boss's letter. In my storyboard I had it on his left so you could see his face while he talks and then have it cut to his left side so you could see his associates laughing at his letter in an OTS shot.

Animated Ape, he points at the window because he has a view of his rival company next door. I figured his pointing at the rival assures the audience that the letter is ment for the people at that company. For the 10 sec club you can add frames before and after the sound file but you can't edit the sound file.

I'm going to cut out all of th camera moves in the beginning and start with the boss finishing up his letter.

Would you all want to see a copy of the storyboard too?

[Larry L.]

Okay M. Mew,

Bring on the boards...we would like to see them!

Thanks.

[MightyMew1]

The boards have arrived! :D

[MightyMew1]

Hey guys. I've up-dated my animation. Please tell me what you think about how he writes on the paper. I'm waiting for comments on that before I unparent the pencil from the character's hand. I've decided that I dont like the anticipation for when he stands up straight. After I post this I am going to stop that shot after he nods and cut to a long shot. I'll show him stand up straight there. I had debated wether or not I should post what I have yet, but I really need to know if the writing sequence is okay because unparenting the pencil before I fix things causes problems. >_<

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClubbetter.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClubbetter.avi)

[MightyMew1]

Up-date: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClubbetter2.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClubbetter2.avi)


That paper is kicking my butt! :mad:

[MightyMew1]

No one has any comments? :confused:

[DSB]

Might be picking nits, but the head nod bothers me. Nothing other than his head is moving. There should be a bit of compensatory motion in his upper body. It should be subtle, but it should be there.

[MightyMew1]

Thanks a lot DSB! I'll make sure to fix that! :D

[MightyMew1]

Today's up-date: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClubbetter3.avi

I like it alot! I think it might be time to unparent the pencil though, lol. :D

[Fazendinha]

Hi Mew!
You're using maya, right? I'm not much of an expert... Actually, I am quite proud to only (sort of) understand the animation side of Maya, but have you tried to parent constrain the pencil instead of parenting it to the hand?
Select the hand, then select the pencil and go to contrain - parent. Then put a key for every single frame where you the pencil to stay "glued to the hand", delete the constrain (just go to the outliner, you'll be able to find in the pencil hierarchy) and animate the pencil dropping. Sounds complicated, but it is easy!

[MightyMew1]

Hey Fazendinha thanks for the advice! :D I have parent constrained the pencil to the hand. I'll delete the constraint today though since no one seems to have any comments on the character's writing sequence.

[David B]

once you put a key on the first frame, the pencil will no longer be acted on by the constraint... you have to bake the keys.. An easier method, though, would be to duplicate the pencil where you want it to drop and then key the duplicated pencil and animate the visibility attribute.

Hope that helps!

[MightyMew1]

Thanks alot David! I have no clue how to bake keys so I'll try your duplication method. Thanks so much. You've saved me from a potential problem!:D

[ScatteredLogical]

In Lightwave I think you can do it by selecting the group of keyframes in its graph editor and using a right-click menu option...I don't think you're using that but it's probably just as simple to find out in other software

[Fazendinha]

you should have problems with just keying the constrained object with baking the keys... I do it all the time at the film that I'm working on!

[MightyMew1]

I did what David B suggested and duplicated the pencil. I will post an up-date once I get a chance to work on the animation. I'm just very busy with homework and with trying to get my registration situation straight. Registration is the most stressful day of the year! :mad: I am on the computer waiting for my scheduled time and the internet slows to a crawl as soon as 5 pm hits. Once I can finally get to the page to enter my class numbers all of the classes are full. Now I'm checking three times a day with hopes that the class I need is suddenly available. So yeah, I haven't gotten a chance to work on the animation, but I haven't given up on it.

[MightyMew1]

A guy on the 10 secondclub forum says I should change the shaking of the fist sequence to the character scratching his neck with his pencil. He said it would make the character seem more real. I wanted to ask if you think I should do that. Wouldn't that make him seem confused rather than angry? :confused:

[MightyMew1]

Up-date: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClubbetter4.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secClubbetter4.avi)

[MightyMew1]

I decided to start over. I didn't like where the animation was going. The gestures were too violent anyway. Here's the new blocked out animation. Please tell me what you guys think.
http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast.avi)

[David B]

Hey MightyMew, I like the new direction it's headed. I'd suggest having the guy move around a bit on the pedestal. He's gesturing very actively with the top half of his body but seems like he's nailed down. I think the anticipation to the "your kind" pose is a bit too exagerrated. The "fall off at an awkward moment" sequence isn't reading too well for me. What's he doing with his hands there? Perhaps get rid of a few gestures and make one gesture for "awkward" into an anticipation for a bigger gesture on "moment." Just a thought.

Keep the updates coming!

-David

[MightyMew1]

Thanks for the crit, David! I agree with you. I was thinking about it this morning and I figured it would be nice to give him some bounce to go with the gestures. I also think it would be a good idea to have him step forward. I need to decide when he takes that step though. I agree about the awkard moment part too. He's supposed to move his hand/wrist in a semi-circle so that his hand ends up in and antic position for when he points as he says "moment". I'll try to make that read better, but if it doesn't work I'll just cut it. Thanks alot for your input! :D

[MightyMew1]

Today's up-date: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast2.avi

I deleted the arm motion that was hard to read. I also added motion in the legs and feet. I started on the guy who's listening but I relized how late it was and didn't have time to refine the movment that he does so far. What do you guys think?

[DSB]

The action in the lower body helps, but I'm wondering what the motivation is for having him step forward when he does. You may have one, and that's cool, but it looked to me like he stepped forward to show his feet weren't nailed to the floor :)

If you're going to have him step forward, pick the part of the dialog where he seems the most emphatic, where he'd be most likely to move as a reaction to his emotional state. His last insult doesn't seem like that "peak moment" to me.

[MightyMew1]

Yeah, I agree wih you DSB. I was thinking about that last night while trying to go to sleep. I think he sounds like a snobbish character and a snobbish character wouldn't make such energetic (for lack of a better word) gestures. I'm thinking about having him go up on his toes when he does his second to last hand motion, like he does when he says "orange" and then come down on his final hand gesture.

[MightyMew1]

Sorry RRRivero, I have not heard anything about a film felstival...

[MightyMew1]

Here's today's up-date: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast3.avi

I tweaked the keyframes a bit and then I just switched the curves from stepped keys to linear. The file is very boring with it on linear. I liked it better without inbetweens, lol. I'll begin editing them tomorow.

[MightyMew1]

Hey everyone, here's tonight's up-date! http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast4.avi

I improved the animation up to when he says "kind". I also fixed his hand so it wouldn't go through his stomach towards the end. Please let me know what you guys think, I really need help with this. :(

[David B]

Hey MightyMew,

I like the camera angle better on this one. As for critique, I think you're trying to puch the contraposto pose too far. It doesn't take too much of a turn of the hips in order to show that the character is leaning on one foot more than another. In your animation, his spine is a complete curve and looks painful to do in real life. Also, show weight shift be emphasizing the line of action on the body and not on just the spine. His hips stay directly over both feet for the whole animation. Push that line of action in your poses.

Looking better, though, so keep at it! :)

-David

[DSB]

Mew,

What's he thinking while he's saying all this - is he imagining this stuff happening to his enemy? Is he comparing himself (favorably) to his enemy? The animation itself is looking better, and David makes some good points. I'm not getting the feel for the character though - his thoughts and feelings as he goes through this speech.

It's kind of what I was getting at earlier when I asked about the step. The motion is good, but I'm not yet seeing the e-motion :) The animation should serve the emotional arc of the character, not be an end in itself.

Keep at it - it is looking much better!

[MightyMew1]

Thanks for the advice David B. and DSB, I really appriciate your help! :D

David, I understand about the spine curvature. I'll fix that as soon as I can. I don't get the hips thing. I thought the hips were the character's center of balance and that keeping them between the feet shouws that the character isn't about to fall over. :confused: I seem to have some more learning to do! *cheers* :D Could you give me some tips as to where the hips should go?
DBS, I think my main issue comes with acting. I don't understand why people can't feel the character's emotion. Is it the facial expression or the poses that are hindering the character's emotion? I hope its the fact that the animation isn't finished that's cauing this. I've thought about what the character is thinking of as he delivers his speech. I originally had him reading a letter that he wrote so I think I should stick with that mentality. The character would be imagining these events happening to his enemy as he reads the letter, or in this case speaks his mind. This morning I imagined how I would feel if I were in his situation. At first I'd be angry but as I rattled off things that I want to happen to my enemy, I'd get a devious grin on my face. What do you guys think about that? Is it too much, or too little?

I'm sorry that I dont have any up-dates and I doubt I'll have any all weekend. I have a HUGE project for storyboarding class that I have to work on (it's due Mon). After I finish my homework I will try my best to have this animation completed before the contest deadline. :(
Even if I dont get the project done in time for the contest, I will continue to work on it. It would be nice to have an animation in my portfolio that is 100%finished...

[DSB]

Mew,

I looked at your last version again, and here are my thoughts:

Of the three insults, the first one's animation matches what he's saying the best. The motion and gestures look like what you'd see when someone says this. The second less so, and the third doesn't seem to match at all (at least to me). I feel what he's saying in the first insult, but that feeling wanes by the end.

It's definitely not facial expressions - that's the last layer to add. It's all about the pose.

[David B]

David, I understand about the spine curvature. I'll fix that as soon as I can. I don't get the hips thing. I thought the hips were the character's center of balance and that keeping them between the feet shouws that the character isn't about to fall over. :confused: I seem to have some more learning to do! *cheers* :D Could you give me some tips as to where the hips should go? Hi Mew,
The characters hips needn't always be between the characters feet to show them on balance. It's not only the hips but the whole body that has to look balanced. Here are some quick examples I drew of what I'm talking about. The first one is sort-of a representation of what you have going on. http://www.eattheyoung.com/poseexample.jpg

You could also take a look at my friend Matt Berenty's work in progress (http://www.mattberenty.com/AsGoodB.mov)animation that shows nice use of subtle weight shifts with the hips.

Hope that helps!

-David

[MightyMew1]

Hey everyone! I finally had a small break in my continuous flow of projects and was able to work on my animation for a few hours. I've worked all the way up to "orange in hue" I've looked at his gestures after "orange in hue" and I kinda like their timing as they are. I just have to work on the trasition from his "hue" gesture to his next one. What do you guys think?

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast5.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast5.avi)

[MightyMew1]

Up-date: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast6.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast6.avi)

No one has any comments?:confused:

[MightyMew1]

Hey everyone! I really like this next up-date. I've learned so much today as well as yesterday about the graph editor and it shows in my work. I own my newly aquired knowledge to one of my new friends, who looks at my work and crits it in real time. Anyway, here's the up-date, please let me know what you guys think: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast7.avi (http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast7.avi)

[Larry L.]

Hello M.M.

Great progress from the first test.!

Good progress on hitting the accents in the dialog.

What you need to do next is a small piece of animation- like a character picking up some weight like a boulder. But use the acting you have learned and apply it to that exercise. Then pick an emotion and add it into the mix...

Think about who your character is and what emotional state they are in when they lift the boulder. Are theyn determined, or resigned, or angry or cocky?

Then use the thought process to change the emotions. "Thinking time" is the transition between emotions.

Chew on that...

Thanks, MM.

[MightyMew1]

Thanks a bunch Larry! I'm glad you like it! I'll log your box lifting w/ emotion exercise into my to do list. Thanks for the great suggestion! :D

[MightyMew1]

Hey everyone! I'm still working on the lip sync for this. Someone on the 10 sec club site suggested that I include some holds rather than having him move so much. My friend said I should have a hold when the guy says "hue". He also came up with having the guy lift his head like he's howling. I'm still working on that part, but here's what I have so far: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast8.avi

[DSB]

It's getting there, mew. Keep at it!

[MightyMew1]

Here's the final version! I hope it's good enough! :D

http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10secFinal.avi

[MightyMew1]

It seems I'm not as finished as I thought I was. :p I just noticed someone had responded to my post on cgtalk.com. The guy said that the change from the "hate you" pose to the "all your kind" pose was bad. He suggested that I simply hold the "hate you" pose. He also said that the gesture for the "may you be turned..." was too much. He said it would be ok if the person was shouting but what I had was a bit much. So I went back and changed things accordingly.

Here's what I have now: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast9.avi


Please let me know what you guys think. :D

[MightyMew1]

It seems I'm still not finished, lol. Here's an up-date: http://studentpages.scad.edu/~jcofer20/10sec2ndtryblast10.avi