Budget Templates for 3D Animated Movie

[anumukonda]

Hi,

Do any one have the Budget Template ( Spreadsheet ) for 3D Animated Movie, It would be interested to the see any of the budget sheets of any of the sucessfull completed 3D Animated movies, ( can any one let me know the link where i can get the spreadsheets/excell sheets ?

Thanks in Advance

[Wade K]

I hate to say it, but I am afraid that you are going to have a very, VERY hard time finding these. Studios are very protective over these things. Let me see what I can do. I might be able to get my hands on a budget for a 3D feature film that was done here in Canada. Don't hold your breath though, but I will try my best :D

Cheers!

[Shany]

budget,
well, you can make the calc by your self in an rough assumption.

exmaple:
take 'Pixar' studios:

1. buy 3d software (e.g: maya) * Copies per Computer * yearly product subscription * plugins (unless you code them your self)

we get +-: 3,599.00$ * Sum(Computers) * Y per year * Sum(Plugins)

+

2. pay salary for the animators (unless you work for your self :) )
we get +-: X Salary * Sum(Animators) + Y Salary * sum(managers) + (other emplyee related expenses such as: food/bonuses..etc)
+

3. Maintain/buy A Computer * X Computers (Computer farm)
we get: dynamic expenses

+

4. Maintain/buy company related stuff (e.g: office/computers/building renting/cars..etc)
we get: dynamic expenses

+

5. goverment taxes/lawyers..etc
we get: dynamic expenses

6. budget=1+2+3+4+5+x ; rough budget on how the studio spend money for an animated film :)

as you can see, creating a 3d movie has its BIG BIG BIG Budget, and i am sure i haven't even touched an inch of the real expenses :)
i am sure you get the idea anyway.

:D :D

usually, i rather use the lowest 3d software available and master it (student releases of maya/3dmax for example..although still high)

[Wade K]

Shany, I am afraid, my man, that there is much, MUCH more to making an animation budget (2D or 3D) than that. You have to factor every little detail into it from photocopy costs, to legal fees, to animation and modeling, to travel expenses and post-production costs (these are just a few of the many details). Seriously, an animation budget cannot just be pulled out of thin air, based on any other production... You need to know the cost of each individual step that will be needed during the course of production, and account for it. I have budgets on my computer that are many pages long.

I don't mean to discount your trying to help, but just so you know for the future.

Cheers

[anumukonda]

Hi Wade & Shany,

First thank you very much for your responce,

I had a glance of how the budget looks, running for more than 12 pages, what i am unable to figure out is that,.............. when i go through the media/press , Studios claim , a huze figure ,say $150 million to $300 million USD, as the cost for making the Animated movie. ( What would be the % break up , between Pre Production , Production and Post Production , as well as marketing/distribution cost ? ) Is the printing / distribution cost taken in to account when they say the total cost of production ?

cheers,

[Shany]

hi Wade,

yeah, i know, thats why i wrote:

"as you can see, creating a 3d movie has its BIG BIG BIG Budget, and i am sure i haven't even touched an inch of the real expenses :)
i am sure you get the idea anyway."

;)

[Dave]

when i go through the media/press , Studios claim , a huze figure ,say $150 million to $300 million USD, as the cost for making the Animated movie.
That's exagerating a bit. Treasure Planet had a reported budget of around 140 mill -making it one of the most expensive bombs in animated history together with FF:TSW; while HOTR and Shrek2 came in around 60 to 70 mill.
In general printing and distribution will be included in this, but marketing isn't; and that can chew up another giant chunk of cash, sometimes half or more of the amount given for the production budget.
These figures are kinda easy to manipulate as well. The reported budget for 'Dinosaur' wasn't all that high, but that didn't include R&D, nor the cost of setting up -and subsequently closing down- The Secret Lab.

[Wade K]

You have a 12 page budget in your possession and you are unable to see how it is broken down? Do you have any animation or production experience? It should be VERY clear in that budget as to how it breaks down indeed. Everything will be laid out in detail, but if you do not know what "track reading" or "on-line editing" or "Rendering" are, then you wil have a very VERY hard time. There are no such percentages that we can pull from our knowledge of other productions, as they vary from film to film, depending on the film's needs. You, and ONLY YOU can get these numbers for YOUR film.

As for $150-$300 million, I do not know what kind of a budget you are looking at, but that is a VERY unrealistic number... ESPECIALLY in India. If you were ot produce a feature (90 minute) feature completely in india, there is no reason why you cannot do it for $10 million, and it will be of the best quality possible in India. It will not sell in any other countries in this hemisphere probably due to inexperience showing through in quality levels...

Cheers

[Shany]

usually studios uses a low price workers (animators) in order to save money :)
take alook at japanease animators who get hired for a low salary. (note that you can make higher working in mcdolands :D hehehe)

[anumukonda]

DAVE -The figures which i had seen in the press/media ...are for the making of FINAL FANTASY, is some where around $250 Million USD, I was refering to 3D Animated movies,

WADE - I do have exprience of working for , two of the animated features, as a lead visal effects artist, ( that was in 1998/1999 ) and later I moved in to Business Developments. I am sure that some one shoudl be able to do a 3D Animated movie in India , ranging form $ 10 Million USD to $15 Million USD. " what i was enquiring is more to get the budgeting details of the sucessfull 3D Animated movies in North America, ( I do not know, i am asking for some serious confidential information, such as BUDGET sheets of sucessful animated movies, if it is so, Please let me take back my question )

SHANY - I do agree with your point of view too , ha ha.

[Dave]

The figures which i had seen in the press/media ...are for the making of FINAL FANTASY, is some where around $250 Million USD, I was refering to 3D Animated movies,


The total budget for FF:TSW was 137 million USD, making it a whopping 115 million dollar loss for Square.


cheers,
~D

[dobermunk]

I've read that El Cid (Filmax, Spain) will be completed for 8 - 10 million and from what I've seen looks visually to approach much more expensive productions. Its 2D with crowds (armies, etc.) and bgs, in 3D. I think this is a trend - to stabilize costs through concetrated pre-viz and layout development.

to get back on thread themes:
I find it suprising how much difference I've experienced in every project I've ever encountered, and so a sort of spread sheet for new projects would inevitably fall short. Particularly with mixed funding models, as is often the caase in European productions.

[Wade K]

Well, I will tell you Anumukonda, you are looking for some of the most confidential information in the biz, and I do not think you wilol have any luck finding it. These budgets are kept very well guarded, and unles you find a disgruntled producer from somewhere good...


Good luck.

[anumukonda]

DAVE -
The total budget for FF:TSW was 137 million USD, making it a whopping 115 million dollar loss for Square.

DAVE -Nice to see your Note Dave, the Article, where I read about FF may be a Bit Exagaragating the Losses, ( or givng the over all cost involved in marketing as well as the distribution cost )?

* Do the 137 million USD included the marketing Expences +Printing and distribution Expences ? ( OR ) is it the Production Cost alone

*It the BOX office collection Just 22 million Dollars, OR the revenu from , International sales, + VCD/DVD Release + Broadcasting Rights, included in to it ?

Wade - Yaa, you are right , I am looking for the basic template stuff, and it could be very confidential , FOR INSTANCE, " one can get the Budget Templates ( empty sheets/ with out values ) for the live action film production , form multiple sources, like the Australian Film commission /UK Film commission and several other sources, may be it is tough to get something similar for the 3D Animated movie, and I think we can close the Discussion Thread here :o

[skinnylizard]

Anu- i am in the process of setting up an animation studio. ive always been involved in the business side of things.
Assuming a studio gives you a price of $100million for XYZ film. the number only represents the cost of creating the film. this figure represents costs involved in pre production,exeuction and post production. (including - writing, shooting, music, voices) anything related to the creation of the project. Marketing costs are never represented or associated with a film or any kind. Also the rule of thumb is marketing costs are = to the production costs. Which is why if a studio has spent $40million on a film and they think it will only make $40million they sometimes find it prudent to shelve release.

The formula for calculating a hit is usually 2.5 x production costs.

This does not include DVD,Pay per View, Cable or Overseas revenues.

of course this is assuming an animated feature = regular feature film.

secondly id like to think that when a studio makes a $100million animated feature not all the cost are animation related. if you hire 2-3 top stars to do voices your spending atleast $15-$20 Million there. then add to that music, background scores etc. these things add up to a much greater degree. Therefore i think actual animation costs are much less than budgets that are mentioned.

regards,
skinny.

[RRRivero]

Wade, when you talk about a film made in India not being able to sell elsewhere for quality problems, you mean the animation itself due to inexperience, or the finish of the movie, like resolution and sound quality? Is there any sort of standard to be expected from a movie to be shown, say in the US? :confused:

[anumukonda]

skinny- Thank you for the Information,

I think, No one is intersted in posting the Spreadsheets, Let me make them for my self :)

[sathish3dartist]

Hi anu..

I read all your conversation between wade and Dave. At last, you have concluded to make-spread sheet of yourself. In-fact I also wanted to know the exact process of budgeting an animated film, excluding Marketing and publicity cost.
Once your spreadsheet is over, please post it to me... I will be thankful to you.

Thanks in advance

I hope you will recognize me who I am :)

Sathish

[dobermunk]

anumukonda, I don't think anyone's being stingy, just every project stylistic and storyline requires its own budgeting list. Personnel specifics are also a major variable - ie. if you have two requirements filled by own person or such., how capable each position is, what software pipeline support, training etc. I've put together some productions, specifically a 32 minute no-experiments (well, no R&D) production in 4 1/2 months and I'm now structuring the plan for an 8 - 10 minute short. Won't have specifics until the animatic is done, giving screen seconds, camera angles etc. If you have any specific questions on your project, feel free to ask.

[ashisante]

Hi there,
I would like to wish you all the best effert for doing something for Indian animation industry.
i am ASHIS here and one of the experienced man in animation film making in india.I went through all the conversation of all the people regarding the 3d film BUDGETTING(DETAILED BUDGETTING).
First of all i found the topic u r putting here for help ,shows the imaturity in you regarding animation as a business..For your kind information not every film in animation can be mesured in same scale.all film has its own scale because of its style and concept and production locality and so many other factors.And in one of your letters you have clarified that u have experience in animation.But I strongly doubt that.If you know the process of animation film making and now as u say u r into the business side of it then u r in a perfect position to do this job urself.Any body having the experience of film making and knowing the market from business point of view can make a budget of any kind.its not a big task.(but if he is into film making as wqell into business).
Well second thing you cant compare holliwood films with indian films and u should not think what the kind of budget they have and the breakdown also.its totally varies here in india.So first of all think from indian context point of view and think for which market u r going to do the film and where u want to execute the production.
Third thing if you are really interested to know all the details and private things of budgetting of a 3d animation film then you can contact on - justmail1973@yahoo.com.(Only contact if you are really serious.otherwise dont waste your as well as anybody's time .)

Best of luck and keep in touch if u r really interested and want to do something in indian animation industry.








skinny- Thank you for the Information,

I think, No one is intersted in posting the Spreadsheets, Let me make them for my self :)

[Robert.A]

Wade - Yaa, you are right , I am looking for the basic template stuff, and it could be very confidential , FOR INSTANCE, " one can get the Budget Templates ( empty sheets/ with out values ) for the live action film production , form multiple sources, like the Australian Film commission /UK Film commission and several other sources, may be it is tough to get something similar for the 3D Animated movie, and I think we can close the Discussion Thread here :o[/QUOTE]



Hi all
New to posting here so bear with me please. Wade had mentioned earlier about these templates being confidential. That can be true but only in how much money is being allocated to each catagory. Can't spell...
A great resource is a book called " Producing Animation". There are some great templates in there that you can input into a spread sheet. Where it all gets sticky is how much do you put in? That's the confidential stuff.
With a little reasearch that you can do in your area, you should be able to get a gauge as to how much other companies are paying out for certain jobs. Networking with people in these companies can be a great help.
If you have a union in your area they can help with resources as well. I have some jpegs of a typicle CG pipeline that I could get to you if you so desire.
Let me know if this helps?

[catsqueezer]

I have an MS Excel spreadsheet template for budgeting purposes (blank) if anyone is interested. At the least it outlines the many (although likely not all) line items that need to be considered. We are going to be using it to bid on an upcoming TV series. Don't ask where i got it cause I honestly don't remember. Oh, and it's Canadian :cool:

Let me know with email addresses. Thanks!

Brent

[bfilmaker]

Hi..

I am looking for a budget breakdown to do an 2d animated commercial..

if anyone has any info would be very helpful..

you can email me at bfilmakerint@yahoo.ca


Thanks .. Mickey..

[oopshan]

I found this site.
http://www.afc.gov.au/filminginaustralia/azbudget/fiapage_1.aspx
They have templates (MS Excel) for feature films, short films, documentaries, animation, etc.
I hope this helps.

[ashisante]

Hi there.are you really interested in budget sheet for 3d animation?cause according to my knowledge nobody in india till now has the real skills aswell as knowledge to produce 3d animation film.Well its good to hear from you about 3d budget sheet.Well if you are really doing any project lat me know. i MAY HELP YOU IN THIS.Thanks.
Regards,
Ash

[skinnylizard]

Hi there.are you really interested in budget sheet for 3d animation?cause according to my knowledge nobody in india till now has the real skills aswell as knowledge to produce 3d animation film.Well its good to hear from you about 3d budget sheet.Well if you are really doing any project lat me know. i MAY HELP YOU IN THIS.Thanks.
Regards,
Ash


really, you should have a look around. Last time i checked there were quite a few films that were made out of India in 3d as well as series.

Jakers by Crest
Sinbad by Pentamedia

there is another film almost finished at Pixalaya for an Italian channel.

and this is just off the top of my head.

[Animated Ape]

Weren't the 3D movies "Hoodwinked," and "Doogal" animated in India?

I also seem to remember Final Fantasy costing around $250 mil. + as well. That was factoring in all the top of the line equipment that they bought to furnish their downtown Waikiki studio in Hawaii, with views of Aloha Tower and Diamond Head. Like buying 300 Herman Millar chairs and the like. They blew a TON of money on that movie.

Aloha,
the Ape

[skinnylizard]

Weren't the 3D movies "Hoodwinked," and "Doogal" animated in India?

I also seem to remember Final Fantasy costing around $250 mil. + as well. That was factoring in all the top of the line equipment that they bought to furnish their downtown Waikiki studio in Hawaii, with views of Aloha Tower and Diamond Head. Like buying 300 Herman Millar chairs and the like. They blew a TON of money on that movie.

Aloha,
the Ape


Hoodwinked was done here partially from what i know. I thought a bulk of the work was done in China or something? anyone have solid info?

Ape i dont know about Final Fantasy but i thought it was around the $140million mark. but yeah man they really did screw up there. dont know what people think.

i had this interesting discussion yesterday with my crew over budget vs entertainment/quality.

i used the example of something like Pitch Black vs Chronicles of Riddick where they had six times the budget so they went out and made dresses out of Swarovksi Crystal :confused:

[Animated Ape]

Sorry, just looked it up. Hoodwinked was animated in Manila.

Aloha,
the Ape

[ralfsmith]

Oh its very interesting. Could you provide me more information ?

max@digitalhardcore.us