The Real Deal on The IL Institute of Art-Schaumburg (AI)

[CompSciKJ]

Even though it is late and I want to get some more drawing in, I need to comment on my (former) school so perhaps people out there will know what kind of questions to ask/issues that may arise

My background: Engineering degree from Univ of MO-Columbia in 5/2002 (i.e. not some stupid kid here lol).
After looking at the school doing several tours and reading a ton of info I had sent off for, I decided to enroll for July 2003.
Here's my account per quarter: I worked full time so did 2 classes x 4 quarters

Facilities: OK, across the street from Woodfield Mall, enough parking, computer labs are excellent

Admissions: Those people are in those jobs because even the coldest person can warm up to them. They're just nice perky people, but yes, they have a quota of number of students they have to get in. The Readmissions people do "phoneathons" to get students who left to come back.

Quarter 1: Fund. of Design & Fund. of drawing...I felt the first class was a rip off, making collages (ooops, montages of crap), arranging dots, lines, planes..BORING.... Fund of drawing, definately makes sense, I knew about perspective and et. al, but I hadn't drawn in a few years

Quarter 2: life drawing and color theory: very pratical courses. Life drawing needs to be broken up in topics heads and hands and we should have learned how to draw the clothed figure or have a course on how to render materials.

Quarter 3: DISASTER!!!! Survey of Design & Image Manipulation

My first animation instructor: Jiba Anderson-what a F(@#er! Arrogant, too small clothes, beady eye wanna be...he claims to have signed a contract to get his series made into a movie, but a few weeks later, he tells the class that he has to do all of his drawing here (in school) because his heat in his crib has been off for two months???? WTF...ok so you can't keep the heat on in Janurary in Chicago are you blowing all of the money on crack or something??? They don't cut your heat off for oweing $50,,,they'll do it for $500 or $1000. Secondly, he had to take a bus and the Metra commuter train to and from school because his car was booted (meaning the city of Chicago had it for not paying like over $500 in parking tickets, again where is all that money). Aparently he got his car back because I saw him driving around the parking lot in a Grand Am??? ROFLOL it wasn't even the GT version.

SO around week 4 of this quarter a student copies my work (brief detour->the AI schools DO NOT, REPEAT DO NOT HAVE ANY CONCEPT OF PLAGERISM!!!!! THEY DO NOT ENCOURAGE OWN CREATIVITIY, STUDENTS CAN JUST COPY SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK AND NADA HAPPENS. There have been cases where current students have put stuff on a print drive for the service bureau to print it and former students have came in and just downloaded the stuff to put into their portfolio, so no protection for the little guy here.)

Well I tried to call them on it and yes my director, new guy, did review it, but his hands were tied. THE ULTIMATE SLAP ON THE FACE WAS THE PROJECT WAS GOING UP ON THE WALL AND THE WORK WAS TURNED IN LATE & INCOMPLETE AND WAS VERY CLOSE TO A STAN LEE'S CHARACTER and again, nothing. I tried to go to the dean and everything and apparently MR ANDERSON didn't like it so HE PULLS ME OUT OF CLASS AND STARTS SCREAMING AT ME LIKE A NUTHOUSE AND ACTUALLY THREATENED ME..No concept of professionalism. As much money as I'm spending at this school, I will go over whoever's head I have to. So of course, I went to the director (his boss) and told him to expect to hear from my lawyer. Oh yeah folks, don't be afraid of these big corporations, if they f88k you over, you go get a lawyer. And that was exactly what I did. My attorney said that the case was in a very gray area, but he recommended me to work with his boss because more than likely he wants to keep his job.. So anyhow, I settle down a tad bit because I really like my director and he asked me to stay (At that point, I was ready to pull out). However, I tried to get the work removed from the wall because all the school preaches is professionalism and it was so badly done that any potential employer will think we're a joke. AI schools hate conflict so everyone was very passive, no one likes to step up to the plate, so they'll tell you "Oh I can't do that"(which the chair of the display said to me) I tried to go to the gallery committee to get it pulled, the chairs the dean, everyone...no one will take responsibility in making sure only good work makes it on the wall...they'll let sh-- be up there just to have the walls covered or to give the instructor some flexibility. Mr Anderson just did it to make a f**k out of me and at $2500/quarter, I don't think so.

I try to move forward into quarter four and put everything behind....Oh yeah one big big mistake, I should have had Advanced drawing before Survey of Design. I fought to get it switched around it f88ked me over because all we did was draw our character for model sheets and what not...OH talk about some one who was mad!! I know more about prereqs than the school does, again, been in college, done that! It was here when I began looking at other schools, found the Academy of Art University in San Francisco, but wasn't sure if I could handle the move from IL to CA, that's far without any family, ya know?

Quarter 4: Advanced Drawing and 3-D Design. 3-D: nice instructor, but expensive waste of time. I call the class the origami class because we construct a bunch of useless crap out of bristol board, wood, & foam board...no drawing, nothing related to animation.

Advanced Drawing: Well would be fine if I took the classes back to back with life drawing....I get 1/2 way through the course and all of a sudden we're drawing clothed figures? WTF?? when was I supposed to learn that. I had a good instructor, but again, the problem lies in the structure of the AI schools....it was at that point that I decided that I have to leave..not sure where I am heading. I haven't gotten word on if I can even afford the Academy of Art, but damnit, I'll find away because I'm not going back to ILIA...can we say degree mill???

On two up notes: the counselor is FANTASTIC, he is truly dedicated to his job of helping students. My first quarter there, I was working 8:30-5 and couldn't get there b/c of Chicago Traffic until 5:45 and he would stay to talk with me for the first 11 weeks of my time there. He had a family and did not mind! I told him that he should get a private practice and make lots of money!!!

The readmissions office: they're so sweet, man If it wasn't for the problems with AI's policies, I would stay, but at 25 y/o, I need the best school I can get to live my dream. I'm working on my own characters and series It's a long shot, but I have nothing to lose, if I die with a debt, they wipe it all away as I'm single, no kids. If the world ends tomorrow, I would rather be doing something that I'm happy with.

Any questions, e-mail me. but I think I covered everything. Oh yeah the school for interior design kicks ass, excellent job placement rate!!!

[Ed_Gavin]

Aparently he got his car back because I saw him driving around the parking lot in a Grand Am??? ROFLOL it wasn't even the GT version.

I can't believe that they would let anyone who drives a Grand Am teach animation! What is this world coming to?

Just goes to show when you are looking for a school always ask to see student work and the faculty parking lot.

It makes me so mad I want to go speeding off in my solid gold Bentley!

ed

[CompSciKJ]

Ed-
Ok, so you decided to pick one line of my entire post to poke fun of :p
The point was this instructor was bragging about how great he is and how much money he was making, I just wanted to point out how much of a liar he is(if he was making all of that money, he wouldn't have gotten his car conficated by the city of Chicago or his heat cut off, which is a basic necessity) and how lousy the AI schools are because they have to hire liars because anyone with real skills wouldn't be caught dead at an AI school
Got it now? :p
KJ

[Ed_Gavin]

Oh I get it. You didn't check out the school very well before signing up, paid a lot of money for a substandard education and now you are venting your frustrations to all of us.

ed

[CompSciKJ]

now you are venting your frustrations to all of us.

ed

It's not a matter of being frustrated, I'm just sharing my experience. I did do my research and I didn't find sites like this one until just recently, hence my membership date June 2004 versus July 2003 (when I started at AI).

Besides, it's a free country, I am allowed to voice my opinions. Is it really necessary for you to be so condensending and and down right obnoxious in your replies? I was hoping to get meaningful comments about my post (Versus your "flamming" posts) and maybe to hear from other people in my position and to see where they moved on to.

I see that you are in the education field. Do you try to belittle your students if they're not so holy and wise like yourself? Or do you take the professional approach and try to share in your experiences. If it is the first, I know to avoid Ringling like the Plague.

Regards,
~KJ

[Ed_Gavin]

Hey I'm just having some fun. The fact that I didn't populate my responses with smiley faces might have confused you. Sorry that it was taken the wrong way.

Thanks for sharing and better luck in you future educational experiences.

ed

[Ken Davis]

What were the course materials like--re: the instruction and passing along of info?
Was this competent?

Something to bring to your attention/awareness is that students don't always grasp the relevancy of instruction, so that "oragami" class may have some future pertinent value when taken in context of all the other subjects in the course load. I don't know, so I'm just guess based on what you've written.

Were you taking animation, or graphic design or.........???

Instructor competency is always an issue at schools these days, with most of them likely having genuine seasoned pros.
In my own case, I suffered financial setbacks myself while teaching last year and lost property to the repo man, but............but, my story is not universal in that situation either. That kind of thing does happen to people, their day-to-day inconsistency can mean anything.

Schools are, first and foremost businesses, with profit at the end of the day being their sole reason for being. Those schools that can gloss up the veneer of actually providing a quality education gain a better reputation and thus attract a "better" student, and more profit. That education really does need to be sound though, because the word get's around pretty fast if the programs are void of substance.

Schooling in the art field is a tough thing these days, for both sides, because there are now SO many schools out there, offering a extremely large range of study. if one has little exposure to the field they wish to study and eventually enter, gauging the quality and competency of staff teaching it is very difficult.

My rule of thumb that I offerto scrutinze schools: minimum 10 years experience in the field for instructors and a list of credits or clients that you can recognize at least some. This way the instructor, as a pro, has done enough high-profile, or prominent, work to have made respectable inroads into the business.
Granted anyone can claim they've worked for a large ad firm, or Dreamworks, or whatever.......but those claims can be backed up by samples.
I've been on both sides of the teaching thing. I've had idiot instructors and I've had idiot students and have had to contend with both. Some instructors should never be teaching, and some students cop attitudes that no-one can absolve. Hell, I've seen schools that hire their own students and pass them off as industry pros--a very dangerous "in-breeding" process
Your indignation is understandable, based on what you've said,and without additional details thats all I can say.

-Ken

[ScatteredLogical]

It makes me so mad I want to go speeding off in my solid gold Bentley!
ed

Which means the Batmobile is where ?

[CompSciKJ]

Were you taking animation, or graphic design or.........???

I was an animation major at ILIA. I chose the location because it was close to home,as I couldn't afford to rent an apartment anywhere in the metro area (Chicago). I was also attracted to their placement rates, which my rep said that they only count placement if the student was doing something related to their major. Well, I talked to a girl that I met in advanced drawing and she said 5 of her friends couldn't find jobs and the career services supposedly told each of them "If we get you a job at the video rental store, that's placement." I was appalled!!! She has left the school and I do believe her. It also came out that the school was having some accreditation issues...Does anyone know which is better: Regional accreditation or National accrediation??

What were the course materials like--re: the instruction and passing along of info? Was this competent?

Well my complaint with the drawing classes is that they skipped over a lot of fundamental stuff, like rendering materials so when life drawing came around, we would know how to draw the clothed figure, i mean i felt like when was i supposed to learn this it was just a surprise out of no where. Of course I understand that an artist needs daily practice, but why am I paying all of this money to be in class and I'm not getting even the fundamentals? I could have skipped AI and just bought a bunch of books and learned just as much. Of course I do understand that they can't teach you everything, but I don't feel that I got my money and time's worth. Since I've been in school before, I know all about discipline(sp? I can't spell tonight :D ) and study habits, etc. And even if someone posed the argument that you need the degree (i.e. I'm paying for just the piece of paper)to get your foot in the door, I would raise an eyebrow because I don't believe that is completely true. People have been very successful by pure luck and or who they know. I hope I said that right. My first animation class, I can safely say that I could have just gotten a syllabus from the previous quarter and did everything on my own, I didn't need to pay $1300 for it.


Something to bring to your attention/awareness is that students don't always grasp the relevancy of instruction, so that "oragami" class may have some future pertinent value when taken in context of all the other subjects in the course load.

Maybe the class wasn't so critical for me since I've done a little bit with 3-D graphics, however I have to question it because other art schools have similar programs(of course not every single class is identical), but none of the other schools have this class or anything close, that's why I didn't think it was so critical. The better schools of the industry seem to be doing fine without this class. That's what raised the alarm. Based on the curricculum, the class is sorta just in a category by itself. At one point we were working with bolsa wood and foam board, so I don't see how honestly those materials will help me be a better storyteller, or character design, etc. As far as the other projects, we did a 12 sided box (dodecahedron), then we built a shaper that had insets (truncations), next we had things sticking out of it (stellation), then we built a 3-d puzzle, then came the bolsa wood, & foamcore projects... :confused:



Instructor competency is always an issue at schools these days, with most of them likely having genuine seasoned pros.

My rule of thumb that I offerto scrutinze schools: minimum 10 years experience in the field for instructors and a list of credits or clients that you can recognize at least some. This way the instructor, as a pro, has done enough high-profile, or prominent, work to have made respectable inroads into the business.

Hell, I've seen schools that hire their own students and pass them off as industry pros--a very dangerous "in-breeding" process

Actually at ILIA, the only person in the entire department that has experience was my director who just joined the school in December, everyone else either just got their master's degree and is trying to get in just like we hope to be, or they actually attended the school for their bachelor's in the same field, thus the "inbreeding" that you mentioned. Definately outside of the director, no one has 10 years of experience, or even 1 year.


I've been on both sides of the teaching thing. I've had idiot instructors and I've had idiot students and have had to contend with both. Some instructors should never be teaching, and some students cop attitudes that no-one can absolve.

I agree with you whole heartedly on this. But the instructors need to remember that we're shelling out big bucks so if we're demanding, we have the right to be...that Jiba bozo that I spoke of in my original post is not too clear on the concept of. That's when it hit me that the AI schools have a big image problem, because a guy like him would be canned in a heartbeat for threatening a student, but they know that it's hard to recruit people, hence why they do the inbreeding....


In my own case, I suffered financial setbacks myself while teaching last year and lost property to the repo man, but............but, my story is not universal in that situation either. That kind of thing does happen to people, their day-to-day inconsistency can mean anything.

Wow I am so sorry to hear about your experience. I hope things did get better for you. I know people just have bad days, but the incident with the instructor, he planned it.


Schools are, first and foremost businesses, with profit at the end of the day being their sole reason for being. Those schools that can gloss up the veneer of actually providing a quality education gain a better reputation and thus attract a "better" student, and more profit. That education really does need to be sound though, because the word get's around pretty fast if the programs are void of substance.

Yeah, a lot of people I know that I was in class with, aren't returning. I just didn't feel that I was getting my money's worth. Don't get me wrong, I put everything into my animation assignments and still managed to work full time (yes a lot of late nights), but I turned in everything in on time. I'm sure if I had more sleep or wasn't working as much or whatever, it could have been better, but hey, I have bills, what can I say?


Have you or anyone heard anything about the Academy of Art University in San Francisco
~KJ

[Freeon]

I'm getting pretty disheartened by some of the stuff I'm reading about schools.

Are there any schools that anyone would recommend that are in the Chicago area?

[Ed_Gavin]

Are there any schools that anyone would recommend that are in the Chicago area?

I grew up in beautiful (well maybe now so beautiful) Burbank IL, and went to Moraine Valley Community College and then Triton before I got my act together and went to Ringling a few years later; but that's neither here nor there and long ago and far away.

The School at the Art Institute of Chicago has a computer arts program (or used to) but I think it's more fine art driven and not character. As for character driven courses/programs I'm not sure what the area has to offer.

ed

[CompSciKJ]

I'm getting pretty disheartened by some of the stuff I'm reading about schools.

Are there any schools that anyone would recommend that are in the Chicago area?

Hi there-I was born and raised (still here in fact!) in the Chicago area and as far as animation, The two AI schools (The Illinois Institute of Art-Chicago & Schaumburg) are it as far as bachelor degrees. I know that a couple of community colleges offer certificates, but I read an article a while back that says the industry wants to see a bachelor's degree, not a certificate, emphasis, concentration, etc.
If that's wrong, I bet that there is a school near you that you can get a certificate from. I wouldn't necessarily move from out of state, if you know what I mean, unless you want to be in Chicago just because!

I heard that Northern Illinois University has a great illustration program; I personally haven't looked into it yet nor know anyone personally that goes there.

My personal plan: Since there aren't any good schools for a bachelor's degree, I'm spending time at College of Dupage (community college) to work on specific areas like life drawing & marker rendering(under Advertising/Illustration); I really want to get into developing sets for my characters, so I'll be in the interior designing classes, last but not least, I have an interest to learn more about actual clothing design, so I'll take a stop in the Fashion Illustration course.

Now after that, I may be in a more of a financial position to move to CA; I had to rule out the Academy of Art because they don't have any scholarships/grants beyond the summer portfolio program and I don't have enough loans to pay for another Bachelor's degree. I may go there for my Master's, not sure yet....Otherwise, I'll be looking more into the state schools out there...

Hope this helps!
~KJ

[Freeon]

Thanks for the replies. I think it might be a good idea to look elsewhere outside of the area to pursue the kind of education that I'm looking for in animation if I decide to go that route. I might look into getting a business education first. I'm not sure. I'm going to think about it a while and do some more research. Thanks for the help.