Please, help a moron!

[bird16]

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[toonsmith74]

Hey Bird,

I can't even begin to tell you how to get 16mm onto a computer. With video, I'm familiar with capturing, digitizing, and editing; but with film--I'm ignorant. On the other hand......a way to get your stuff into a computer for output would be to get yourself a scanner and some rudimentary editing software....and away you go.

I usually scan my drawings, fix them up in Photoshop (or some other manipulating-type software), and then edit it all in Adobe Premiere or Afterffects. Output is up to you at that point, whether it be 24fps, 30fps, or even 12fps.....depending on the appropriate speed.

I actually wish I was more familiar with film but digital seems to be the more efficient way to go these days. You sacrifice certain qualities but time is well saved.

Hope this helps..........and I've probably been even more confusing with this post, so if you have any questions feel free.

[bird16]

Hi Toonsmith74, Thanks for the prompt reply! I'll give it a try. You're right, digital seems more efficient, and cheaper, I can't afford the 16mm test rolls anymore. I also came across a website, animationtoolworks.com, which has something called Lunchbox Sync. Seems to be an expensive system once you include the necessary peripherals-know anything about this system?Thanks again, Toonsmith! Bird

[toonsmith74]

I've seen those pencil test thingies called "Lunchbox" but I never used them--not sure if it's the same thing or how they work but it's worth a look. From what I understand, it was a quick way to shoot drawings and check your timing.

[RRRivero]

Hello!
I think you should first tell what you intend to do with the animation, after all, you do not use the same equipment or software for small animations for the web as for a film.
I'm also starting in animation, but where I live there´s not much information, so I'm learning the hard way. I got a scanner, just the regular A4 for offices, since that's the paper I use anyway, and found that Macromedia Flash was a very comprehensive software to start, later I got Toon Boom Studio and I´m trying it now in combination with CTP. You should forget abot what you have in 16mm and start over with a scanner. If you lost the original drawings, see if you can find a slide scanner to digitize from film. If you can´t get one, over here we use a regular scanner with a little prism-like mirror placed over the film, and if the outcome doesn't have enough resoltion, it doesn't matter with Flash or Toon Boom, because that's fixed after vectorizing.

[Tony :^{)}=-]

Hi guys.

Sorry I've joined this discussion late. While I'm working on my new film and book, as well as continuing my fulltime teaching, I barely have time to read postings at the moment let alone write. However, I do still read everything and do sometimes try to catch up on the discussions when I am moved to... like now.

As much as it grieves me to say so (that is, as a veteran 2D animator with over 30 years experience of all aspects of our wonderful industry) I have to say that, today, the only way to really go with animation is 'digital'. This is not to say we give up on the 'humble pencil'... heaven forbid! I know there are guys out there who draw straight into the computer. However, at the level of quality that I hope the industry will maintain, this just is not the best way if 'accuracy', 'subtlety of expression' and 'artistic excellence' is to be upheld.

However, beyond the time-honored pencil animated approach, there really is no way that the old film approach can be practical any more. Unless you are fortunate to have one as a collector's piece, the real 'rostrum camera' (which is required for traditional 2D animation filming) is just not available any more these days. Even the professional rostrum camera companies are long gone... unless they replaced their film based cameras with high quality digital ones of course. The distribution and marketing of 'real’ films just does not happen in the modern world... everything in the mainstream is digital now… unless they are 35mm ‘movie-type’ films (which have been converted from their original digital production media anyway, so that they can be shown in cinemas, etc.). Digital software for the animator... not just for the 3D animator but the 2D animator too... is now so superior to even the best of the best from the old cel/film approach. Once your drawings are scanned in from the pencil stage there is so much that can be done with your work that it’s truly mind-blowing. I hope to demonstrate this with my new film, which uses digital technology to create the great classical looks of the past. My book will actually contain a DVD version of this film and will explain just how it was all done… both originally with cel and film and currently, using contemporary digital technology. (But the bad news is that it won't be out till later in 2005.)

Anyway, my advice is definitely to stick with the pencil drawing, and then scan your work into the computer using a basic, everyday scanner (using the ‘line’ function… NOT grayscale or color), then use a good software application that you can perhaps ‘beg’, ‘borrow’ or ‘steal’ from others. (That is, if you really can't buy it yourself?) If you're producing a flat-color, traditional cartoon looking style that will work best on TV and the Web, then ToonBoom Studio is perhaps the most simple and unchallenging software you can possibly get. If you want more of a traditional film look that will work best cinematically and also on TV... i.e. with a look that has things like textures, blurs and soft/gradated lighting, like the best Disney films did (as well as integrate the filmic qualities that Photoshop can offer within the program)... then go for Flipbook 4 (which does just about anything a traditional computer used to do, all in one package… and yes it can give the flat color ‘Web’ look too). Both of these programs, like all the others, output to the digital movie MOV format of QuickTime (which I prefer to work in… although others prefer AVI… which is all a matter of taste or prejudice!) and if you really, really need to end up on true ‘film’ for some reason (and most people don’t' anymore... not even for festival submission) then you can convert digital files to film afterwards (although this will cost you money as, if it's done properly, it has to be done using profession equipment at a professional production house).

OK... to recap. Always draw your animation using traditional pencil techniques. Scan your artwork then work digitally. Digital software gives you ten times the advantage that traditional cel animation did and is ten times faster in terms of coloring and combining everything into a movie format. Digital technology will cost you more money initially I suspect but once you have it you have it forever (keeping in mind upgrades... although I still prefer to use the older versions of some of my own digital software). Also, the best software allows you to do everything that a traditional cel animation studio could do, large personnel of staff included… but all in your own, home-based desktop computer and you alone working on it!

Now that has to be miracle, if nothing else!

Hope this helps?

[Tony :^{)}=-]

Hi Bird.

I just caught your posting as I was leaving to go out. Anyway, here's and off-the-wall, crazy thought that may or may not be worth considering?

Yes, there would be a significant difference between the traditional style and the digital style. However, it occurs to me that with 45 minutes finished you should have enough material to seriously present to possible investors, sponsors or grant organizations that could help you. With some money behind you, you could actually pay others (I don't mean costly 'pros' but maybe just family and friends at minimal 'expense' rates) to re-do the first part for you as you work on the second. I know full well that with my own film, not working with any money behind it is a nightmare. (I luckily have my college facilities to draw on.) However, there is always someone out there who is keen to encourage filmmakers who are showing commitment and initiative. You probably wouldn't need huge amounts of money... as a professional production would... and it may well be within the reach of local arts grant organization, or simply rich guys keen to support a struggling artist.

Anyway, this is clearly not a quick fix 'crazy' idea... but one that you might consider following through on. (Quite frankly, its the best answer I can give you right now!) Again, if you have produced 45 minutes of your film on your own then you just HAVE to impress someone! (Just make sure its a 'rich' someone... or someone running a business or organization that can help you!) (s)

Good luck! (s)

[Tony :^{)}=-]

Hi Bird.

Glad to be of help.

I hope that you can get past the 'second stage' (you never know, they may roll their eyes in wonder!). (s) Let us all know how you get on... and especially when you get everything done. Needless to say, I'm impressed with your ambition and your fortitude!

Best wishes,

[bird16]

Hey Tony, Just had to say, you're an inspiration :) ! Thanks for guidance and knowledge. When your book comes out, I'm first in line. Thanks again! Bird :)

[Tony :^{)}=-]

Thanks Bird... I'm just glad I helped a little. I did also mean to say that you shouldn't stop at one funding/sponsorship source. Look for the most likely organizations or interest groups that will most identify with your kind of project and work outwards. I've known films funded from many sources at once.

Oh... and you don't have to buy my book just because I responded! I hope you will buy the book because it will be a 'must have' buy? Life is all about giving back some of what we've received. I've received a heck of a lot throughout my time in animation and so offering advice... and writing books... is my way of doing that. Ultimately we're all working for the benefit (and survival) of 2D animation... right? (I'm not against 3D by the way... far from it... its just that 3D can more than look after itself these days and its not endangered by the apathy and indifference of those who should know better!)

Again... 'Good luck' with your project and keep us informed of its progress!

[bird16]

Hi Tony, I'd buy your book because I KNOW it contains treasures beyond your posts! :D Bird