Tex Avery on DVD

[L_Finston]

Originally Posted by sajdera

I'm not very fond of the Fred Quimby episodes, although they are arguably more vibrant in animation.

Fred Quimby?! His contribution to animation consisted of being listed as producer. I don't remember exactly why he got the job. He might have been someone's brother-in-law. I suspect he was supposed to keep an eye on the finances. MGM fired Harman and Ising and then had to hire them back, because they discovered they needed people who knew how to run an animation studio.

Originally Posted by sajdera

But you can't top the personality of the Jones episodes!

If you say so. I never really liked _Tom and Jerry_, and especially not the later ones in limited animation. I did like the one with the sword-fighting, where they were dressed up as cavaliers. At their best, they were first-class cartoons from a technical point of view.

According to what I've read, the MGM orchestra loved playing the music for _T and J_. It was the most difficult music they ever got to play.

Hanna and Barbera were very good at producing what the public wanted to see, and they made a lot of money at it. Like they say, money doesn't stink.

Laurence

[Harvey Human]

I love the Tom & Jerry shorts from the early and mid-forties. After that, they - and this seems to happen to every cartoon character over the age of 10 - lost their grittiness and were turned into more toddler-friendly characters. The characters Spike, Tyke, and Nibbles (the little mouse in diapers) are emblematic of this era.

I cannot watch the Jones T&J shorts. There's too much posing and camera mugging for my taste and too little content; plus the music and voices are terrible.

[Graphiteman]

Jones himself said he didn't get T&J. He recycles storylines from previous WB cartoons smetimes like HUbie and bertie.

BTW T&J were never directed by Tex. Quimby was a producer. May've been regarded as a pain-in-the-neck in those days but a dream producer by today's standards; just nipped at heels making sure things were on time and budget and not interfering afaik in the creative end.

MGM have the classiest cartoons; the rowdiness of WB with the technical proficiency of Disney.
Oh yeah...Hanna and Barbera are the most winningest directors in the Academy animated short category...Largely for TOm and Jerry. I would guess T&J were more popular becasue the were a successful team while Avery did many one-offs black out gag cartoons.

[sajdera]

I suppose we're just totally opposite. The cavalier-style episodes were too cutesy-wutesy for me and the gags were not very funny. The Jones episodes were crazy and strange and I think the voices were great. Both Tom & Jerry had these really low voices and would typically say just one word or two like, "Yeeesssss?!" Sometimes they ended up as friends, even. And they had that same Jonesy "Grinch" visual style that I'm very fond of.

[Harvey Human]

Originally Posted by sajdera

The cavalier-style episodes were too cutesy-wutesy for me and the gags were not very funny.
...
Sometimes they ended up as friends, even.

That's another thing that's wrong with the Jones T&Js.

Little is more "cutesy-wutesy" than mortal enemies becoming friends at the end of a cartoon.

The early T&Js are violent, ugly, and noisy.
The Jones T&Js are smug, hammy, and cute.

[sajdera]

Originally Posted by Harvey Human

The early T&Js are violent, ugly, and noisy.
The Jones T&Js are smug, hammy, and cute.

I can agree with those adjectives. I'd add "trippy" and "whismical" to the Jones shorts. They have a kind of "dream-like" quality to them as well. I can also see how you'd apply "cute" to them, but I think a more appropriate word is "gay" (in it's original sense, that is).

The early T&J was indeed noisy! You know the music that plays when they're running around the house, stepping on rakes and whatnot, that vivace tempo string-section insanity?!
Bullulununlunlununllununuh...!

[Harvey Human]

Originally Posted by sajdera

I can agree with those adjectives. I'd add "trippy" and "whismical" to the Jones shorts. They have a kind of "dream-like" quality to them as well. I can also see how you'd apply "cute" to them, but I think a more appropriate word is "gay" (in it's original sense, that is).

The early T&J was indeed noisy! You know the music that plays when they're running around the house, stepping on rakes and whatnot, that vivace tempo string-section insanity?!
Bullulununlunlununllununuh...!

I enjoy the chaos of the early shorts. T&J might have been the most chaotic series of that era and I appreciate them for that extreme. Those shorts are just insane for the amount of pain the characters had to endure. It's difficult to recall anything that rivals them.

[Haredevil_Hare]

Originally Posted by L_Finston

One of the main reasons he left is because Lantz wanted him to work on continuing characters and Avery didn't want to do it. Lantz is on record stating this.

Not every director wants to develop continuing characters. Studios want them because people supposedly "care about them". You can also put them on watches, lamps, bed linens, toys, etc. Tex Avery was a real artist. He wasn't in the merchandising business. That's one of the reasons I like him so much.

Really??!! Then why did Tex decide that Termite Terrace's first task was to make Porky Pig the star of their Looney Tunes series? Why did Tex try to duplicate the character of Bugs with The Crackpot Quail and to a certain extent Screwy Squirrel? How was he able to create the Frito Bandito character for commercials? And, why was he so adament in making sure everyone knew that he was the creator of Bugs Bunny at a time when Bob Clampett was trying to claim that credit? If Tex wasn't so concerned about character creation he might have let Bob take the glory.

I'm certainly not saying that Tex was this crass, capitolistic sellout or anything. His biggest interest was comedy. And every comedian or student of comedy knows that characterization is just as important if not more important than individual gags. Most often, gags flow much easier with a good character. That's why I said that he was always looking to create a character, not from a producer's stand point but rather from that of a writer/director.

Now, to answer the question of Tex Avery WB toons on dvd:

Vol 2.

The Heckling Hare (c. 1941)
Tortoise Beats Hare (c. 1941)
Hollywood Steps Out (c. 1941)
I Love to Singa (c. 1936)

Vol. 3

Daffy Duck in Hollywood (c. 1938)
Thugs With Dirty Mugs (c. 1939)
Daffy Duck and Egghead (c. 1938)

[L_Finston]

Originally Posted by Haredevil_Hare

Then why did Tex decide that Termite Terrace's first task was to make Porky Pig the star of their Looney Tunes series?

I don't know whether he did, or if he did, why. To the best of my knowledge, he was one of several directors at Warners, and not in charge.

Originally Posted by Haredevil_Hare

Why did Tex try to duplicate the character of Bugs with The Crackpot Quail and to a certain extent Screwy Squirrel?

I'm not disputing that he invented characters or that he developed them along with others. According to what I've read, he wasn't that interested in continuing characters. He'd use them for awhile and then drop them. However, he wasn't in charge, and had to go along with what his bosses wanted, or quit.

Originally Posted by Haredevil_Hare

How was he able to create the Frito Bandito character for commercials?

Presumably to make a living. Being able to do something is one thing and wanting to is another.

Originally Posted by Haredevil_Hare

And, why was he so adament in making sure everyone knew that he was the creator of Bugs Bunny at a time when Bob Clampett was trying to claim that credit? If Tex wasn't so concerned about character creation he might have let Bob take the glory.

Credit where credit is due. It may also have had financial implications. Being the inventor of a famous character sounds better than being Joe Schmo.

Originally Posted by Haredevil_Hare

And every comedian or student of comedy knows that characterization is just as important if not more important than individual gags.

I don't think this is necessarily true.

Originally Posted by Haredevil_Hare

That's why I said that he was always looking to create a character, not from a producer's stand point but rather from that of a writer/director.

I don't think I ever said he wasn't interested in characters. According to what I've read, he wasn't particularly interested in continuing characters, and I agree with him. I also generally prefer one-offs and stories with a beginning, middle, and end. The end is particularly important. I hate stories that drag on and on and on until everyone's sick of them. Not that continuing stories are necessarily bad. Like anything else, it's how you do it.

Laurence

[DrSpecter]

Geeze, "The Big Snooze" isn't Tex?? There's no director credited, but it's got toons quitting, toon suicide, the wolves, nonsensical sight gags, etc. I guess there was no such thing as intellectual property in those days!